213. A Professional Dance Company’s Whole Dancer Approach: Insights from Julie Opiel at Body Traffic

213 - BodyTraffic

Dr Chelsea: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Passion for Dance. I'm your host, Dr. Chelsea, and it's my mission to create happier, more successful dancers through positive mental skills. In this episode, I get to interview Julie Opiel the Director of Education and Community Engagement at Body Traffic. Body Traffic is an LA-based dance company that champions contemporary dance, inspires audiences and drives positive change in our community.

Julie and I talk about overcoming career challenges, the importance of community engagement for educators and professional companies, and why experienced teachers should teach beginners every once in a while if they don't usually get to do that.

Julie also shares body traffic's unique whole dancer approach, , which nurtures dancers as artists and humans.

Dancers and educators. I hope you listen in for insights into fostering growth in your company, maintaining passion and creating meaningful connections through dance.

Welcome to Passion for Dance. I'm Dr. Chelsea, a former professional dancer, turn sport [00:01:00] psychologist, and this podcast is for everyone in the dance industry who want to learn actionable strategies and new mindsets to build happier, more successful dancers. I. I know what it feels like to push through the pain, take on all the criticism, and do whatever it takes to make sure the show will go on.

But I also know that we understand more about mental health and resilience than ever before, and it's time to change the industry for the better. This podcast is for all of us to connect, learn, and share our passion for dance with the world. 

Dr Chelsea: Hi Julie. Welcome to the show.

Julie P.: Hi Chelsea. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. I.

Dr Chelsea: Absolutely. Will you introduce yourself and tell us a little about your dance journey?

Julie P.: Of course. My name is Julie Opiel and I am the Director of Education and Community Engagement at Body Traffic, which is based in Los Angeles, California. , My dance journey I think is, is similar to, you know, a lot of folks in arts admin. I started out as a dancer. I, was in the ballet world. [00:02:00] For a while.

I'm from Memphis, Tennessee originally, so I grew up training at Ballet Memphis and um, I decided to get my, , bachelor of Fine Arts at Webster University in St. Louis. And it was a really wonderful eye-opening time for me to learn about all sorts of. Techniques outside of just ballet kind of opened my bun head world a little bit. Um, and then upon graduating, I, was lucky to move back to Memphis and, dance with ballet Memphis, in my early twenties. And that really sparked a love for community engagement for me. the company has a really robust, , community program, so I was able to teach a lot of, uh, classes and community centers all over the Mid-South. And then, you know, I, I started to feel a sense of what's next. Um, you know, things like burnout and, , I was feeling, just a little lack of confidence I think when you're kind of nearing a transition point in your life.[00:03:00] 

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: so, and, and that led unfortunately to an injury, which, um. You know, kind of wrecked my world a little bit, you know, as it does for a lot of dancers.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: forced me to like, think about, all of the things that, that I love, aside from dance and kind of, , made me think about, yeah, who I am as a person, aside from ballet. .

Dr Chelsea: Right.

Julie P.: And yeah. And then, so I, I eventually decided to get my Master's of Fine Arts. Um, so I went to Florida State University and moved to LA after graduating from there.

And, was really lucky to find, um, this amazing opportunity with Body Traffic, which is a company that I just have come to love so much. Um, and yeah, here I am.

Dr Chelsea: I resonate so much with that. The uncomfortable transition part when like, you know, something's next, but you dunno what it is. And I think a lot of times that it's a level up and it's a [00:04:00] good thing, but it feels uncomfortable or uncertain or you know, not knowing what's next.

Yeah.

Julie P.: I mean, we, I think, you know, we're so. At least for me, I was like, okay, I love having a schedule every day. I love knowing where I'm gonna go and what I'm doing and planning out my entire day. And the sort of perfectionist side of me was, just needed to know what was happening at all times.

And when something comes in that's unexpected, it sort of you off your feet, you know? Um, but I think, now looking back on it, I'm really, I'm grateful for, that moment because it, it really. It kind of shattered my world and I was able to rebuild something that even more authentic to who I am,

Dr Chelsea: Oh, it's wonderful that you feel like it resonates with who you are. That's always the challenge and the task. And I agree. I was a similar bun head and I appreciate the structure and I like that. And the, the ballet world certainly lends itself to that level of structure and rigor, which. If that's [00:05:00] comfortable.

It's hard to then say, what do I do when I have absolutely no structure whatsoever? So I'm glad you were able to shift and find something that feels so close to you. And

Julie P.: Totally.

Dr Chelsea: I love asking. Esteemed artists who've had wonderful careers, both, you know, in the ballet world and then now in the admin side about a career like challenge.

And maybe it, maybe it was that transition, but if there's something else that you, that comes to mind, uh, and a career highlight something that was really special about your, your journey so far.

Julie P.: Yeah, I think, you know, that injury really was a turning point for me and, and the. timing too was critical because I could sense that I needed a change. You know, I was ready to like, okay, maybe I need to move away from my hometown and kind of expand my horizons. And the injury really came at a point where I was planning to audition. Find a new job. And so I was like, what is the universe [00:06:00] telling me right now? Like, know, I,

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: now I'm in LA and you know, I've, I feel very woo woo sometimes, but I'm just like, yeah, what is, what is the universe, you know, asking of me or telling me what are the signs? And, that time while it was so hard to not be dancing every day, I think it just really gave me the opportunity to say like, oh, like what is it about dance that I love? Like, I've just been doing it for so long, but

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: You know, what's my why? and, and I was able to like sit back and watch. I was able to do, you know, and, and nurture like a, um, you know, that that part of my brain that's interested in somatics and, you know, there's just, there's. So many things that, like, it opened the door for, I was able to

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: dance, watch dance. So, again, it, it was like a big, big turning point. Um, it was, it was a struggle, but there was so much richness and. And how it caused me to think about who I [00:07:00] am

Dr Chelsea: Right,

Julie P.: like so grateful and I tell young dancers all the time.

I'm like, I know this injury is gonna feel like it's like years of your life. And in the grand scheme of things, like it's only like six months and that's a big

Dr Chelsea: right.

Julie P.: it's okay.

Dr Chelsea: Right, but it's not actually right as big as it feels in the moment. Well, and I, I think revisiting your why is so valuable, especially in most dancers, find this passion really young, and so then you've just done it because you love it for as literally as long as you can remember. And so being able to stop as an adult and be like, what do I love about this?

Let's, that's a really interesting question. But that led you to the community side, or what was that connection?

Julie P.: So as I was coming back from the injury, I was able to teach a lot. So, um, I, I. The company asked me to, lead these community engagement classes and so it was teaching things like beginning ballet in schools that maybe didn't have the resources to provide those [00:08:00] classes for students and really discovered like, I don't know, when you teach unquote non-dancers or people who haven't had access to dance before, it really does spark a love of like, why dance is so important.

And that has really become my like. Reason

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: what I do. Um, you know, I just think movement is, connects us to our, our humanity, you know? And,

Dr Chelsea: Mm-hmm.

Julie P.: yeah. So that teaching work really brought me to, to my why.

Dr Chelsea: I think there's a lot of teachers who say they only want to teach like the advanced dancers. Will you speak to that of like why you really enjoy teaching the different levels?

Or what a teacher who says, I just wanna do the advanced answers.

Julie P.: Of course. I know, I think, okay. So it's great teaching advanced answers because you can get into like some of the nuances of the dynamics of things, you know, in storytelling. But all that's to say, you can get into that stuff with beginners [00:09:00] too. And in fact, I think there's, um, there's a way, you know, as, as you were talking about like. Because we start dance so young, we just kind of don't think about it. But like when you're teaching beginners, they ask these really beautiful questions about like, how are you focusing turnout? Like, 'cause they see the shape and they're trying to mimic the shape and you can really get into like the somatics of something, like put your hand on your hip and feel your rotators working.

And like, so that work was so exciting for me. It's like, how can I. Like when you're training, when you're a little kid, it's like make a diamond with your plie. You

Dr Chelsea: Sure.

Julie P.: I'm not gonna use that same imagery with adults, you know?

Dr Chelsea: Right.

Julie P.: so. So, yeah, it just gets your brain working in a different way.

It's a challenge, but it's such a beautiful challenge and the growth is like immense

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: really see, like at the beginning of a semester when I was at FSU, I was teaching, um, adult beginner ballet. Um, and you really see in the course of a semester the beginning [00:10:00] people who are so scared to move across the floor on their own.

Dr Chelsea: Mm-hmm.

Julie P.: of class they're moving in groups across, they get the, you know, the structure of the class. It's so, so beautiful to watch.

Dr Chelsea: Um.

Julie P.: recommend to any teacher, like, get in those beginner classes. It'll change your world in the best way.

Dr Chelsea: What a beautiful highlight. That is such a good point. And I think when we are focused on, like, if I teach advanced dancers, that means I am advanced enough to teach them. Like I think there is a little bit of a, a status to that, which is fair. You probably have earned it if you can teach at that level.

But if you feel the burnout, if you feel the stress to go back to the beginning and remember what that discovery feels like, like that, that's a warm, fuzzy feeling. I like that.

Julie P.: I love it too. And something you know we do at Body Traffic that I'm really proud of is we have, um, we partner with an organization that has creative aging classes and it's for movers who are ages 55 and up and you know, some of them have taken ballet or as. Some [00:11:00] of them, you know, have been dancing their entire lives and they're, they're in the class just to feel good and keep their bodies moving.

But we do have some people who haven't really danced their entire lives. And those classes, we, um, one of our company dancers, , Joan Rodriguez, he teaches Afro-Cuban and it's of such a fun way to like, play with rhythm and balance and coordination. And it's, it, I don't know, it's just, um. Those classes are another reason, like why we do what we do, why movement is important.

You know,

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: not, not just for for people who are gonna be on stage, you know, it's really for everybody.

Dr Chelsea: Yes, and I can hear the passion as you're talking about this. So I wanted to ask about your passion, and I know passion is a, a core value of Body Traffic It's something that's important to you there as well. Uh, and maybe you've shared a little about that, why, but if you would dig into that passion about where that really comes from, how you've kept that alive to have such a long career in the arts.

Julie P.: Oh, totally. I [00:12:00] am, I passion. It's, you know, it's tricky because it's, it's not always there too, right? Like you have to, you have to find ways to bring the passion in. , But for me it really is like getting people in their bodies. That is my passion and it, because I believe that. When we're in our bodies, when we're fully embodied, that's like the body is the site where we experience life, right?

It's where we experience joy. It's where we experience grief and if we're really connected to our bodies and movement is such a beautiful way to do that. I think we're able to meet each other with more empathy and more compassion.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: and yeah, so it's just like that. That is why we do what we do. You know?

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: puts us in our bodies, and that's how we experience the world.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. So you said it's not always there and I agree and I am a very passionate person myself, but it is, that's also just the truth is it's not always there. So, and I think that's a misconception where people feel like, [00:13:00] if I'm passionate, that means I should always be motivated and excited and. It doesn't always work that way.

So will you share a little about like what do you do when you don't feel the motivation or when the passion isn't there today, but you still have a job?

Julie P.: Yeah. Well, I'm so lucky to be working with such extraordinary dancers day in and day out. So, you know, if I'm in the office and I'm like answering emails and feeling like, oh, what, you know,

Dr Chelsea: Wow.

Julie P.: of the workday. Um, all I have to do is walk down the hall and like peep in rehearsal and. These dancers are just so generous and so giving and, um, you know, they, they can do these just incredible things.

So, um, for me personally, in my day to day, like anytime I can pop my head in rehearsal and sit in and watch, that really brings the why back, um, to

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: know, why I do what I do. But like, even on a personal level, you know, I think moving my body too, sometimes I'm writing about dance so much and I'm writing about why. Being in our bodies is such an [00:14:00] important thing, um, for humanity. And I'm, I'm sitting on a laptop all day doing

Dr Chelsea: Right. Yeah.

Julie P.: and. It's so great because, um, a lot of my colleagues are movers themselves and it's like, okay, why don't you go take class? So it's like, okay, I hop in class, you know, I move my body too. Um, I also really love yoga. I, , did my yoga teacher training, you know, a couple years ago, and it was just such a wonderful way to get in my body in a really loving and nurturing.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: you know, methodology. So yeah, I think moving, watching dance, seeing art, and listening to really, really good music.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah,

Julie P.: those bring passion

Dr Chelsea: will do it. Yeah.

Julie P.: Yeah.

Dr Chelsea: What you're hitting at are like the two things that we know work so well and in any context. And then you're just applying it in dance that we know obviously like physical movement makes all the difference. And that sense of community and that sense of like, find your people and get back to like, who [00:15:00] am I impacting who was, you know, sitting on these emails all day?

What is this really for? And a lot of, whether it's teachers or you know, studio owners, we spend all this time not doing the part that we loved that brought us originally. So, yeah. Reminding yourself, like, you can go take class, you can go connect back to the dance. Or like you said, just be embodied in some way that feels good with your phase of life right now.

Yeah.

Julie P.: It's like my recommendation to every arts administrator is like, get yourself in the art class. You know? Like, put your body back in the space that brings you

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: joy. Um,

Dr Chelsea: resonates with me so much. I've done so much more, you know, again, behind the mic and talking about it, and then like, no, I need to go experience this again and move more.

Julie P.: have to. Chelsea,

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah.

Julie P.: your goal for today.

Dr Chelsea: That is my goal. I had, I act, I did have a good workout this morning, so that's good. But I do need, there's a difference though, I think between like good strength training and then the way dance feels and, and yoga and [00:16:00] that Pilates and that kind of movement.

So yeah. I need, I need more of that.

Julie P.: that community part that you're bringing in is like, you know, it's key. It's, it's being in a space with other people, being in a space with colleagues that push you to grow.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: You know, or are your fellow dancers or your classmates like, you know, there's, I think there's a reason why after the pandemic, we all rushed to get back in the studio.

You know, we can keep taking class on Zoom and it's beautiful, but like there's something really special about liveness of being in a space with other bodies, you

Dr Chelsea: For sure. That community. Yeah, that community is so different.

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Dr Chelsea: you mentioned growth and I wanted to go there as well, talking about, I guess we could go either way with this and you see what strikes you about your own growth and kind of what inspires that continued movement for you. Uh, but then also thinking about it like in your role, how you measure growth of other, for yourself, for your school.

You know, how you see that moving.

Julie P.: Yeah. I think, you know, I can speak to, to my own [00:18:00] personal growth. I'm so lucky to be in a environment that champions growth and supporting the next generation. And so I think at every level of our organization we're. Inspiring growth. So for me it's our artistic director and founder, Tina Berkett, like, what areas are you interested in?

Where do you wanna grow? And, um, she provides opportunities for me to, for. For me to do that. And, um, and we do that really at every level. We have two of our dancers in our company that, , have just shown immense leadership and a want and a craving to kind of move into the next phase of their careers.

And we've elevated them as rehearsal directors. Um, there's, there's dancers in our company who are really interested in choreographing, and Tina has them building new works on our company. , So I think it's just. Connecting with people and really seeing like where their passion is and seeing how you can make space, uh, to like [00:19:00] send the ladder down and let the next generation move up.

Um, because really it only benefits the organization as a whole too. So I think, I really think it's, it's instrumental like in the, in the leadership team to champion growth, you

Dr Chelsea: yeah,

Julie P.: Then the whole organization just wants to evolve and become better and it builds a, it builds that core value for everybody to kind of move together.

It's just

Dr Chelsea: yeah.

Julie P.: team wants to grow, so

Dr Chelsea: Yeah, it does. I love that metaphor of sending the ladder down. I think that's really powerful to think about. 'cause you're right, if your dancers are expressing a desire, right, that they want to have that leadership role or they want to try something new, and whether that's Tina to you or to your, to, you know, to the dancers themselves, being able to say, great, here's the ladder that you now have to climb and you can go do it, but like, I'm gonna extend that path for you, or the guidance or the advice or whatever that looks like.[00:20:00] 

Uh, but having that. Like, okay, what do you love? Let's help you find that and keep going.

Julie P.: I mean, it's so smart because our retention is really. Great too. I

Dr Chelsea: Oh, yeah.

Julie P.: most of our, our company have been with us for, four more seasons and

Dr Chelsea: Mm-hmm.

Julie P.: it's because they're, they're able to, fill their own passions.

Dr Chelsea: Right?

Julie P.: so I mean, it's, yeah, it's a both and, you know,

Dr Chelsea: Right.

Julie P.: strategic and it's, yeah.

Helpful.

Dr Chelsea: usually like to stay places where we feel stagnant, like we don't want to stay anywhere. If it doesn't feel like there's any growth or change, that feels usually very like stuck and it's hard to find that, um, the desire to, to show up. Like that's when motivation drops and people ask all the time and like, how do you get your dancers to be motivated?

I'm like, well, if they're pursuing something that they want to work towards, that's. That's it. Like that'll, that'll get you there most of the time. Which it sounds like exactly what you're describing in your company.

Julie P.: Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I, [00:21:00] I feel so lucky to be here with, with my colleagues and, you know,

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: team. It's. It's rare, I think.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Rare but doable. You can totally make that happen in your own dance space, whatever that looks like. Uh, I wanna pivot to talk about. The whole dancer concept 'cause that's something that I know is really important to Body Traffic and was one of the things that I initially was like, oh, we need to chat 'cause this is such a cool, uh, concept that I certainly resonate with as well.

So will you start by just explaining what that whole dancer concept means to you and body traffic.

Julie P.: the whole dancer approach is really considering the dancer as the artist, as the human, as the dancer as well. But it's, it's how can we nurture the entire person wherever they're at and meet them where they're at to help them grow. So, um, in our training program specifically, we've found that if we can really provide [00:22:00] talks on leadership or artist talkbacks on, you know, where an artist got to the next stage in their career and having really transparent conversations about, like, those sticky moments where you didn't feel inspired or moments where you face big challenges, like having transparency about that because we, want that rigorous technical training. You know, that's of course really important. But the flip side is like artists who can bring their whole selves to the stage, you know? Tell stories in a more nuanced way, and that connects more with our audiences.

So

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: just dancing for other dancers, but we want the whole world to get moving and to share a love of dance. So we find that if we can come to the stage as humans first,

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: connect to our audience as humans as well.

Dr Chelsea: Mm-hmm. And it is ultimately about that connection to everyone. That's what makes art so powerful. And I [00:23:00] think the, the part that really connected when you talk about the whole dancer, I love hearing the identity piece to that. Like, yes, you are a dancer and especially at a professional level, it's a big part of who you are.

But if that's all you are or that's all you are praised for, or that's all you get complimented on, right? It's hard to narrow yourself down to just that and being able to elicit more of who you are. Uh, exactly as you said, like it just brings more to the stage very literally, like you will. Perform at a different level.

Yeah.

Julie P.: And I mean. We all have such varied, nuanced experiences of life. You know, like we, we all have experienced grief or disappointment or just immense joy. And when we cultivate. Encourage dancers to bring those experiences to their work. It just [00:24:00] creates for like better storytelling.

And I think like pointing to that idea of like supporting the next generation, it's like if we can nurture the whole artist, the whole dancer, that's also gonna be the whole choreographer or the whole artistic director and. You know, our hope is that we really see a paradigm shift in like how we're creating environments and cultivating environments in the dance space that

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: are more compassionate and more supportive. Um, just in general.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. And of course I champion all of that and I, but I also want to highlight, what you said about. Yes, there's the expectation of rigor and there's this discipline and there's this expectation of like high effort,

Julie P.: Mm-hmm.

Dr Chelsea: but also having this whole person approach. And I think people see that as a conflict or see that as like, [00:25:00] how can I, extend that compassion and that care, but also this is a professional company and you have a job to do.

So will you speak to that dichotomy a little bit and how that works for you, all of you?

Julie P.: Of course, of course. And Tina will always say too, you know, we work hard and we play hard. And I think those, those two things are really important work side by side. Our dancers really know, like when we have a week to really put this rep on and get ready for a show, they know when to turn on that, that grit and that perseverance in the studio space.

And I think like. Having a compassionate approach is not in conflict with demanding in the studio. I mean, it's,

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: the dancers know that their work is really rigorous and challenging, and I think just in the front of the room, it doesn't mean you have to be cruel to get that sort of rigor.

You know, you can

Dr Chelsea: Right.

Julie P.: and also still, expect, , a really rigorous, , [00:26:00] way of working.

And for me, I think a lot of it is just like letting dancers know that there are tools available for them too. You know, we, we make sure that our dancers and our company have, , access to physical therapy and massage therapy and these tools that nurture them.

And, and we're really, we're really transparent with them about like. Seeking mental health, resources as well, and something in our training programs that we often offer our talkbacks with, like clinical psychologists. And, we'll have conversations on mindfulness or I'll offer a yoga class, so it's like. I think it's just building the whole piece of the pie together. It's not this one slice of rigor, you know, but it's like, okay, rigor is, is one flavor. And then I'm mixing my metaphors maybe a little bit, but you have, you know, the one piece of rigor and then you also have the compassion. You have the talk back about like career goals. You have the conversation about. [00:27:00] Tools and resources for when you're feeling burnout. And if you provide all of those options for dancers, then they're able to make more empowered choices about the sort of environment that they wanna be in and the sort way that they wanna work in the studio.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Oh, and I appreciate that sense of they're empowered to make those choices because I think the, a little bit, it's the old school way, but it's what people are struggling to let go of, like the intense rigor all the time. And then we'll go, you know, take a vacation for a week, you know, take a break and like that.

Extreme and then stop doesn't actually help, or doesn't help with the burnout, right? It's more exactly what you're saying. It's like it has to be your, your day in and day out full experience. How do you care for yourself after a rigorous rehearsal? How do you lock in when you need to, and then know how to care for yourself and have those resources so that that balance sounds perfect.

Julie P.: A hundred percent and all of our dancers, you know, whenever we have these conversations with kids, because they do ask, you know, like, how do you fight burnout day in and day out? And our dancers will say [00:28:00] like, I love to rock climb, or I love to hike. I, I love spending time with my dog and my partner. And so we try to, part of that transparency is really sharing like what we love outside of dance because it's like.

Filling all of those various buckets that make up your

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, that's back to the identity because if you are only a dancer, then that's the only thing you love. And it's like, but I'm not only a dancer there's other facets of who I am and what I enjoy. And I think especially because dance is so rigorous at a young age, a lot of dancers almost miss a.

The opportunity to explore like what other hobbies do I like? What other areas, what other things do bring me joy because I've just been in the studio all day every day. I don't know. 

And 

Julie P.: I think like the beginner mindset is so important too. Like, because, you know, we start so young, so we expect to be good at it. You know, good at the thing we try, because we started when we were like five years old.

Dr Chelsea: sure. Yeah.

Julie P.: when we were five or three, you know? [00:29:00] Um, but like, something that, that I really enjoyed, in my thirties is like taking a pottery class, and like

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: of bad at something, but still like learning that I can grow too and I can learn a new skill.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: so yeah, I think I encourage everybody. Like in the dance community, in the dance world, if you're kind of stuck in that mindset to just like take the risk and try something new and maybe enjoy being bad at

Dr Chelsea: Yeah. Oh, that is wonderful advice. I love that. It's a really great way to combat that perfectionism mindset too, right? That sense of like, oh, I am actually not good at things and I'm, I'm okay and I am not always going to be perfect, and I can enjoy the process of trying something.

Which then translates to like, yeah, exactly. I'll live like, and then it translates to dance, and you're like, oh, I have never tried that style before. Well, yeah, then it's gonna feel awkward, but that's okay because you can try something new and explore that and be okay with.

Julie P.: Yeah. It's like you probably have never done a [00:30:00] triple pirouette until you've tried it. You know? You've

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: out of a million double pirouettes before you've gone,

Dr Chelsea: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Try something new. Wonderful. Uh, I want to get into a little bit more that practical, like the curriculum, the actual teaching that shows us this approach, this whole dancer approach to things. So will you share a little about your curriculum and how that's incorporated?

Julie P.: Totally. I think one of the best demonstrations is probably just looking at our teen program that we have every year is a really beautiful demonstration of that curriculum. We start the day with a, technique class, and that'll either be in contemporary ballet or that'll be in something like Afro-Cuban.

And it kind of speaks to the various aesthetics and training styles that are evident in our repertory. Um, you know, we, we perform works by Trey McIntyre, which are really, technical and, contemporary ballet. And we also perform, works by [00:31:00] Juel D Lane, which are a little bit more of the African diaspora and hip hop.

So those technique classes, we try to bring a really well-rounded approach to our training. Um, and then we'll have classes in like floor work or contemporary partnering. So we're trying to build on these different styles and these different skills that dancers really need to. To be truly versatile in the contemporary dance landscape.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: Then they learn repertory. So it's like they get to kind of see how that all blends together. And then aside from that, we will offer classes in yoga moments for dancers to kind of turn inward to,, nurture their bodies. We will have classes from, , guest artists will bring in like a clinical psychologist or,

you know, somebody who can speak to, to mental health and how to nurture that aspect and to build mental wellness and build tools for resilience, because that's really important for young dancers. [00:32:00] Um, we have lunchtime discussions as well, so, , we'll curate those talks on, on various things. A really popular one in our teen program is dancing in college, so

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: company dancers to talk about like. What it's like to, um, dance in a college program and the various college programs that they come from. And to that point, we also have dancers who didn't go to college, and it's really important for them to speak on their experience too. So again, we try to provide like a menu of options to help expose young dancers to all of these different things.

And that it gives them, um, you know, kind of a path to choose or it kind of brings them that empowerment element.

One other, um, topic that's also really popular is like commercial dance versus, um, work too. , a lot of dancers are really interested in, um, dancing movies and, and commercials and music videos.

And dancers have in [00:33:00] our company have experience in, in that world of dance too. You know, we're based in Los Angeles and that's really popular. So, um, we, the big thing that we really try to impress upon young people is like, there's not one path to success. There's multiple paths, and your path is never linear.

It always changes and always shifts. So we try to provide them with a lot of options to where they can

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: choice, you know?

Dr Chelsea: Right. Well, that's exactly what I was hearing was that sense of there are so many options and that's a good thing and that there's not, there's not one right answer. And I do think a lot of dance younger dancers, uh. They only see one type of success. And maybe that is a college program, maybe that's a college, like a competitive team coming out of a studio world that's the commercial side and they don't see the other options and like maybe that isn't actually what's best for you and your goals.

And being able to pause and say, what do I [00:34:00] actually really want and what fits me? And having that menu in front of them is amazing. Yeah.

Julie P.: mean, for me, like, you know, the, I think one of the first question you asked was like, um, a setback in your career. And for the longest time, my narrative really was like, I. That was the failure. You know, like I, it was either success or failure and those were the only options that I had. And now looking back on it, and I'm just like, oh, that was just a deviation in the path that led me down something more scenic and beautiful and enriching. and it's, it's really hard to see that when you're in it. You know, like when you're, when you're in it and you're seeing your peers doing things that you thought you wanted to do, um. It can be really hard on young dancers. So

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: those conversations, I think if, if nothing else, if dancers get nothing else out of our training programs, it's really that, like I want them to understand that there are so many options [00:35:00] for them and the world is really like open

whatever choice they might make.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah, that's a beautiful message. It is true. The comparison kicks in where you have that, oh, look what they're doing or what their job or the scholarship that they got, and it's hard to. Separate. I can be happy for them and also realize that's not right for me. So it's not, it's not a failure if that wasn't the right path for me, or if something out of your control, like an injury or you know, somebody else is making a decision about whether you're in, you know, your entry to that program and they choose not to take you.

It's still, the comparison is real, but also you have so many options and choices and, and ways to continue to dance if that's your path.

Julie P.: A hundred percent.

Thank 

Dr Chelsea: you for sharing about your curriculum and your program. I think it is a really inspiring way to look at the whole dancer, and I appreciate that so much.

Before we go, will you share advice for any teachers listening about being that [00:36:00] positive change in dance education that I think we're all looking for?

Julie P.: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me on. This has been like such a wonderful conversation. Um.

Dr Chelsea: Oh, thanks.

Julie P.: And yeah, I'm just so happy that young dancers have a resource like this. Um, it's just really important and I think for, teachers and dance educators, i, would encourage educators. To consider how they're bringing their whole self into their class too, to look at the whole dancer approach and how they can bring that into their teaching methodology. And just to consider, like, to zoom out a little bit and think about like what you're doing and how it's connected to your why for, and what I mean by that is. If, if your goal is to encourage, like, more community in your classes, maybe think a little bit outside of the [00:37:00] box in a ballet class of how you can encourage community. Maybe there's a moment where you allow dancers in the class to share feedback to each other, you know, and kind of create a container for, um, for feedback, that's open from dancer to dancer. . Or just to consider other dance styles and how, how those containers, those classrooms can, maybe you can bring those ideas into your classroom. Because I think lot of times at the front of the room we might perpetuate sort of old, um, old standards that we don't actually want. Or believe in anymore.

Dr Chelsea: Yeah.

Julie P.: Um, but we do it because we've just been doing it for so long. So I think for me, when, um, a lot of the times that I've really grown as a teacher have been when I've gotten out of my comfort zone a little bit and maybe taught a new population or a new, um, you know, the adult beginners, because it makes me think about how I'm doing. What I'm doing and it makes me question like, [00:38:00] am I doing the thing that I think I'm doing? Um, so yeah, I think I would just encourage you to get out of your comfort zone a little bit and, invite some play into your class

Dr Chelsea: That is wonderful.

Julie P.: to be so serious.

Dr Chelsea: Yes. Oh, that's wonderful advice, Julie, thank you. Uh, before we leave, will you share where people can find out more about Body Traffic and the work you're all doing?

Julie P.: Yeah, so you can find us on our website, www.bodytraffic.com, and we are on Instagram too at body traffic,

Dr Chelsea: Wonderful.

Julie P.: information on our classes and all of our performances. Um, we have a pretty robust touring schedule, so, um, see if we're coming to a city near you.

Dr Chelsea: Thank you so much. This has been wonderful, Julie. I really appreciate your time and expertise today.

Julie P.: Thank you. Thank you, Chelsea.

Thank you for listening to Passion for Dance. You can find all episode resources at passion for dance podcast.com and be sure to follow me on Instagram for more high performance tips at Doctor Chelsea [00:39:00] dot Otti. That's P-I-E-R-O-T-T-I. This podcast is for passionate dancers and dance educators who are ready to change our industry by creating happier, more successful dancers.

I'm Dr. Chelsea and keep sharing your passion for dance with the world.